Eliminating Plays that are over effective

Remember the days before online play hit the console? Where our form of multiplayer in sports games were from bringing some buddies over and just kicking it playing Madden or NHL? It was always a great time and there was always the one time when a friend (or you) would use a cheap play to get a score. The penalty for doing that would usually result in a sore arm due to getting punched there from a displeased colleague. Once you played the game a fair bit, you figure out some of the AI and physics exploits that you could take advantage of, but in the spirit of fair play (and being able to move your arm), you would avoid using those moves most of the time to keep the game fun and exciting. The days on Super Nintendo and PlayStation One are gone and gaming technology has only expanded since then. Along with it, our expectations in game authenticity has greatly increased at the same time. Gaming stepped up to the challenge and has become a lot more realistic in a short time. The physics and animations has improved, the artificial intelligent has learned very fast in the past decade and over, and those cheap plays are getting harder to come by because the AI and physic nature of the game prevents it from being effective. At least, it should be. There are still some goals or plays that are “money plays” and still highly effective to be successful on when attempted even with the in depth AI systems that are in sports games now.

Enter the online multiplayer world.

In the first ten games of entering the online world you’ve may have immediately realized one thing, you’re going to get to learn to hate (or love) the “cheese”. Cheese is a coined term for a type of play style that takes advantage of AI loopholes that makes a play over effective compare to real life. Since you don’t have the chance to actually make people feel the pain for using a move like that all the time, you’re going to encounter it again and again because people want to win and rise to the top of the leaderboards for bragging rights. It’s not cheating since you are not doing anything abnormal, and it can be stopped more times than not if you take control of things yourself since it’s the computer not being programmed to prevent it. But it’s extremely boring, frustrating and unfair seeing the same thing over and over again since if a player is a master of a certain cheese move, they will find a way to complete it, where as if the AI had a bit of a brain, the success rate would be much lower. The revolution of online play has brought out an experience that can cause players to be turned off from playing the game. Players that aren’t that experienced or skilled, or even those that are experienced and skilled at the game may only play a few games online due to getting sick of the cheese play. Online play is meant to extend the playability factor of the game since you can get a different experience day by day by playing new players each time. But what’s the point in doing so if half the players are going to make their gameplan based off of taking advantage of the ditzy AI to win. Realistic play style isn’t being rewarded because it’s not the most effective way of winning games.

So how does this come to an end so online play can be what it should be? Where unrealistic play is the most ineffective way to win games and the best players are those who play realistic and highly skilled?

The developers have to step up.

As technology advances and games become more realistic, the expectations for what the consumer expects from a simulation sports game increases as well. We expect the AI to be good enough that the most basic plays and moves can have an offense and defence counter attack. When a player can wrap around the net and ***** top corner always because the goalie moves into the middle of the net way to early, that’s unacceptable. When a goalie goes into desperation save mode more times than not, due to a simple pass from the side boards to the slot, therefore leaving the top of the net open, that’s unacceptable. When I call a defensive coverage that has man coverage on a wide receiver, 4 middle hook zones to stop the slant route, and the receiver gets and 10 yard completions 8 out of 10 times, that’s unacceptable. These exact things in real life would not even be possible for pee wee level of play because the players would make it impossible for these to be successful just by positioning and reacting; never mind the AI adapting or other players intervening against the player attempting to create offense off of these plays. When the most basic plays becomes a method for cheese play, then the AI is simply not good enough. Because of this, some of the community is asking to make the game take some restrictive measures that are unrealistic compare to real life to counter act these abnormal play styles. Getting Fair Play in to prevent players the option from going on 4th downs because players go for 4th downs to often in Madden online is not the answer. People go for it on 4th down because the game makes it too easy for these players to get the 4th down. It’s important that we honour players freedom to play any play style they want and not restrict them with unrealistic measures. Thats the incredible thing about online play, the diversity in play styles and skills. But if the game played realistic and the AI is good enough that simple plays don’t become over successful, then realistic style would be the best way to win games because trying out things you wouldn’t see in real life sports just can’t be successful in game (unless they have terrific stick skills).

It’s the developers job to step up and make the game have the most realistic as possible physics and animation system therefore the players move in proper fashion in relation to their size and skills and what is possible thanks to the laws of physics. It’s key that the AI is intelligent enough that it adapts to the thing it sees time after time as well not get so easily fooled and learn when to be aggressive or conservative. If my defender is a shutdown corner, then he shouldn’t act like a complete buffoon when he gets beats once again on a slant play 5 times in a row. Make the #1 player in the world the best player in the world rather than the best cheeser in the world.

http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/blogs/view/bid/3006543

by Joborule from easportsworld.com





After reading this artical, I really feel like we should take a long look at some of the plays that we do, that we use as money plays, or something close to it. Maybe we can make a couple of new rules or two about doing the same plays, like, try making gameplay more realistic. I like MS alot, and it's players. But some of us do the same plays all game long because they work over effectively compared to what they do in real life. And these 2-3 plays is what sets up the the whole entire offense for that person, and they'll never bother to come out in a different formation the whole game. Not complainin, but it kinda makes the game boring and frustrating. I mean I have my certain plays too, and yea I use them about 3 times in a game, but no more than that, unless its just a basic power run, or isolation run or something. But other than that, when I'm passing the ball, I'm not doing the same plays unless I keep seeing the same defense, and my play keeps workin against that same d. Others though, literally go the whole game doing 2-5 plays, and theres about 2 of those plays thats REALLY hard to stop, because the AI seems to not have any brains. And the thing is, is that its the simplest of plays, yet, if the person knows how to perfect it, then it becomes over effective, and over used. And yeah, even though the play is difficult to stop, you can stop the play by maybe manually taking over a different defender, or calling audibles and whatever, but if the player has perfected that play, then you know that theres some way that they are going to still make it work. And what they do is just simply switch it up on you, and do something else out of that same formation, and thats where it becomes a headache. And before anyone calls it a "scheme", the reason why it feels like BS to the opposing player trying to defend it, is because if they simply didn't have to over commit so many guys on their defense to stop that one play because of the dumb AI, then the play wouldn't be over effective anymore, and wouldn't set up the entire offense consisting of only 3-5 plays. And this is why I don't play online as much against the random people out there.

I agree with the article, I really hope that the game is improved in future years, like cover 2 should be much more effective and harder to beat than it is in the game. Despite the fact that I hope EA makes the stride to do what this article describes, with the programming of the game we were presented I don't think anything is really all that cheesy other than that deep slant play.

I pretty much argee with mcnair, he said exactly what I would...

i really think they need to make man coverage better to..becuase it works good in real life..but then in the games...no body even trys it because it sucks

Mcnair2Wycheck wrote:

I agree with the article, I really hope that the game is improved in future years, like cover 2 should be much more effective and harder to beat than it is in the game. Despite the fact that I hope EA makes the stride to do what this article describes, with the programming of the game we were presented I don't think anything is really all that cheesy other than that deep slant play.

I can think of one thing that Prob or whatever his name is is talkin about. the toss I have is "over-effective", but that's according to him.

Cover 2 buc is effective.

Toss isn't over effective...

Corner blitzes, good D end play, D-End contains and a few other things take care of it pretty easily.

I lose alot and cuss becouse a guy runs the same play over and over even if only when he needs to convert it makes me very angry but, not at the guy for doin it . At myself for going through my playbook and doin crap that i normally wouldnt do. Sure it sux bad but there is a defense to stop every play if i (u,us) execute it. Even if that means the d has to b perfect to stop the "perfect" offensive plays it is all skill one way or another. THe plays you cant stop u should be labbing you azz of to counter,pick it, and stick it up their azz!

i agree one thing i think they should change is when your on defense call an audible and your defensive tackle goes out to be a safety...wtf is up with that? but besides that mcnair hit the spot.

Fudopi wrote:

Toss isn't over effective...

Corner blitzes, good D end play, D-End contains and a few other things take care of it pretty easily.

this doesn't work cuz I leadblock, so if you put the DE on a contain I crush him cuz he is it, and the CB blitz works, but not as effective cuz I run to the inside instead of gettin to the outside, but once I see the CB has been blcoked I hit the outside.

im refering to every person's main $ plays crenshaw. And you have to admit, the toss play you do is over effective because of the lead blocking or whatever else you do with it. Im not talkin about tosses in general, cause alot of them are easy to stop. But yours requires a defense to over commit to it in order to stop it, so that you can just do something else, and BOOM! Thats how your offense gets going every game. And I hope ea gives a better brain to the AI to stop these type of plays. But for now, I will have to leave it, and just use my skill to stop it, even if my play has to be perfect to stop a perfect play.

I agree with mcnair too. The way he put it makes perfect sense. With the way the game was presented to us, nothing is really all that cheesy. And actually, I was watching chargers game yesterday, and the same deep post play that gets behind the safety every time, is what pittsburgh did to SD on a play. Hart (the safety of SD) was 40yds deep into coverage, but santonio holmes still got behind him for what almost went for a td, because hart never knew how deep he was running, and was surprised. Now i know he aint exactly a good safety, but any defender could had made that mistake.

^^^ Not almost every single time though.

yea i know lol. it still happens though alot though, so its only a little cheesy

yep right on the money, guys goin for it 4th in 10 bloody
pathetic , ea needs to think of ways to change up madden
like only have certain scenerios were u can go for it
on 4th ,, i mean guys who go for it really wants
either a huge win or doesnt rely on there defence

there is fair play on ps2, but i dont really want that on next gen. what i really want is for the defense to really step up its intensity on 4th down against the offense, and have it WAY more difficult to convert, where as it makes u almost hardly ever wanna go for it.

iprob is ur screen play not overly used?

yea to be 100% honest ur screen is overly effective lol its very much stoppable but it can take you out of your normal defensive type

What henz said, if you stopped them on 1st 2nd and 3rd down shouldnt u be able to stop them on 4th. If you have sum1 in a 4th and 10 be happy you could be getting good field position

i dont over use my screen. it maybe over effective, but not overly used, cuz i dont do it every other play like every1 else with their plays

when u do stop ppl on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down it always seems that on 4th down is when they get lucky and convert. i think they need to make it so u only can go for it on 4th down in certain situations like 4th and 1 or when the game really depends on it like in the 4th quarter or down by 2 scores.

exactly. u know how easy it is to get 2 or 3yds on this game. so any1 can go 4 it on 4th with so many $ plays

the one huge problem for madden is the quarterback running back 20 yards then throwin a perfect pass or running throwin spinning and throwin a perfect pass if they could some how put in less accuracy with this unless your throwing on the run towards your target big thing in football they say never throw across your body but in madden its very easy to do i think if they would fix this man would be better because you would have better angles on throws and what not just my opinion

I wouldnt mind seeing the vision cone come back.

Mcnair2Wycheck wrote:

I wouldnt mind seeing the vision cone come back.

yea i feel u on this... i liked the vision cone...